AKSpraya XDTalk 2K Member. The serial numbe on the frame (grip area) is the same 6 numbers and has an S or a 5 stamped at the end of the numbers but looks like it is not contiguous with the serial.perhaps done after mfg? The other side of the slide has the Carl Walther Stamp and then Waffenfabrik and it looks like Um / Da (sorry.
Post War Walther Ppk Serial Numbers Search
Just spent an interesting hour talking with a nice old WWII USAAF vet who flew P-47s in Italy and then France after D-day. He brought back a number of war souvenirs, one of which was a Walther PPK. I don't have a photo, but it's in about 95% condition, high polish blue, with brown Walther banner plastic stocks. The only magazine has a finger rest, also brown plastic. The slide reflects Zella Mehlis manufacture.
It has a small proof on the left side of the slide - not having a magnifying glass, I could not make it out clearly, but I recall no number under the eagle, so it's not a waffenamt. I think this is a commercial gun. The serial number is 285930, no suffix. We've got a lot of knowledgeable folks on the board - can anyone tell me the year of manufacture?
- Consecutive serial number SVW-45s. Consecutive serial number SVW-46s. Post-war P38 in 7.65mm Parabellum. East German P.38s. Reworked wartime ac40, ac44, and an East German manufactured gun. Steel frame P38 from Earl's Repair Service. Ac45 matching 'c' block. Post-war P.38 in 5.6mm (.22 LR). A Z ero series and 'a' prefix Spreewerk reworked for.
- Aug 17, 2009 Walther Model PPK.32 Caliber with Waffenampt Proofs, Milled: Walther Model PPK.32 Caliber, Police Eagle/C Proofed, Milled: Walther Model PPK.32 Caliber, Police Eagle/F Proofed, Duraluminum: Walther Model PPK.32 Caliber, Party Leader Grips, Brown: Walther Model PPK.32 Caliber, Party Leader Grips, Black: Walther Model PPK.32 Caliber, RZM Marked.
- Aug 04, 2004 Figure 9. NSKK,.22 caliber, Walther PPK, serial number 862658. Background is a February 1974 Guns & Ammo photograph showing a NSKK,.22 caliber, Walther PPK (center, bottom). Note: the grips on both guns show identical mottling and the serial numbers are the same. Both photographs (Oct. 2003 dated and February 1974 dated) show the exact same gun.
One thing that puzzles me is my RZM PPK serial # 823xxx which puts a date of 1934 manf. Political leader purchasers had to procure a Waffenewerbschein to be able to buy one of the RZM PPKs. The records in the Walther factory were either carted off by the Russians or burned.
I'm estimating 1940, but I cannot glean much info of the internet. I understand Hoffschmidt's Know your Walther PPK book has a serial number chart, but I don't happen to have one. Can anyone help me help this member of the greatest generation? Thanks, John (Added 10/21/14) See pictures on post #4! Ser# 285,xxx on a Walther PPK (ZellaMellis) should have a 'K' suffix to the number on the frame. The matching ser# marked on the right side of the slide was generally with-out the suffix.
Serial numbering for the PP pistol started at #75,000 (1929) PPK production started shortly after that (maybe late 31 or '32) and used the same serial number range as the PP model. When ser#'s reached 1,000,000 for each Model,the numbers were started over again at the 100,000,plus the addition of a 'P' suffix on the PP and a 'K' suffix on the PPK. (A few thousand run of PPk's were ser#'d with so called 7 digit numbers (million series),no suffix letter. There's always an exception isn't there. I don't have a ser# chart handy,it's some where in the stack.
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But I'd agree that with the ser# (assuming it does or SHOULD have the 'K' suffix,1940 or 41 would be a good guess. The high polish blue and fine fit and overall finish was still in order at that time. It wasn't long after that shortcuts started to show but they were gradual at first.
Commercial proofs would be in order. James Bond 007: Quantum of Solace Walkthrough HD - Part 1. At about that time the German Gov't proof mark was being changed to the Eagle/N for nitro proof. 4/1/40 was the date that the old German Crown/N nitroproof mark was elliminated and replaced with the Eagle/N.
That can help date the pistol to either side of that date. But realize that changes didn't happen overnight, on time or in any perfect order. Another mark to look for if not a German Military issue weapon (no WaffenAmpt),would be possible German Police Issue. A tiny Eagle/L or Eagle/C marking is all there was. Sometimes on the frame on the left side right under the mag release,or in that area. May also be on the slide, on the right side usually. Any of the proof, Military issue or (Nazi) Police markings would be marked/stamped thru the original finish,not before it was blued.
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Check the magazine to see if it is perhaps #'d to the pistol. On the finger extension, the serial number was often pantograph engraved into that extension. Sometimes stamped into the mag body on either side or even the spine of the mag. Not a lot of hard and fast rules however! I'll see if I can find that list. (I've got that book, but I don't recall a ser# chart in it,unless it was an addendum page and I lost it.
I'll check it anyway) Added. I found a listing of ser#'s from the old Walther board. I think it's been published in a book so I won't post it. It says PPK mfg in 1940 as betw ser#'s 262,xxx and 307,2xx (all with a suffix K) Any production year/ser# lists for the PPk and PP are based on old records outside of Factory production records, those no longer exist AFAIK. In other words they are an educated guess, but in most cases fairly accurate. Hope this helps. Today I got to re-visit the old WWII vet, and he graciously allowed me to photograph his Walther PPK, which I now estimate as having been made in early July, 1940.
The serial number does indeed have the 'K' suffix, which I missed in my early examination under dim light. It also shows commercial 'Eagle over N' proof marks. How to renumber footnotes in word for mac 2016.
There was no serial number anywhere on the magazine. Here are some pics: And here's a picture of the old gent himself, posing with a model of a P-47 complete with his old squadron colors, and his PPK. It was an honor and a privilege to talk with him; the WWII combat vets have been my heroes since childhood. Hope you enjoy the pictures.
Walther Ppk Ss Serial Numbers
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Walther Serial Number Chart
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Shown above, NSKK Walther PP and PPK, and NSKK gorget.
THE NATIONALSOZIALISTISCHES KRAFTFAHRKORPS (NSKK)
In, 1930, the NSKK was designated the official transportation branch of the NSDAP. Motorization won Germany for the NSDAP and with it they expected to conquer the World. At the outbreak of World war II, the NSKK assumed important transportation responsibilities. By 1943, almost all of the NSKK was on active service with the army or the Waffen SS.
NSKK WALTHER PP, SERIAL NUMBER 994765.
Between 1934 and 1941, about 3,500 Walther PP’s were marked by the Walther Factory with the NSKK eagle and issued to members of the NSKK. About 50 NSKK Walther PP’s are reported in the serial range 81020 to 200733P.
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Figure1. NSKK PP, serial number 994765, left side.
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Figure2. NSKK PP, serial number 994765, right side.
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Figure3. NSKK PP, serial number 994765, left side showing details of slide legend. This legend including the NSKK eagle was acid etched before bluing.
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Figure 4. NSKK PP, serial number 994765, left side. Details of the NSKK eagle.
THE NATIONALSOZIALISTISCHES KRAFTFAHRKORPS (NSKK) WALTHER PPK
A Collectors Prize
Recently I received an E-Mail from my old friend John James concerning a PPK on the Gunbroker Auction (Item# 3025271, ends 2/5/2002, seller from Los Angeles area). I clicked on the site, for sale was a .22 cal Walther PPK, serial number 862658, with an NSKK eagle and NSKK unit mark (11/ M67) engraved on its right slide. While the NSKK PP is uncommon, such a NSKK marked PPK had not been previously reported. The gun was advertised as having been refinished/restored, however the Gunbroker photographs indicated that all the guns markings and edges remained as near new. Like everyone else, I wrote it off as questionable and not worthy of any more time.
Then I received another E-Mail from John James. John described an article in the February 1974 Guns & Ammo covering Nazi Era Walther PP's and PPK's, that shows a photograph of a NSKK .22 cal PPK. This PPK has the same serial number as the serial number on the auction NSKK PPK. Another PPK and an engraved PP are also shown in the photograph.
As the 1974 Guns & Ammo NSKK PPK, was the same pistol as the auction NSKK PPK, some of my doubts about its originality disappeared. Joe Wotka determined the meaning of the 11/ M67: 11 Sturm (company) of Motorstandarte 67 located in Dortmund in Westfallen. Also Joe reported, a .22 caliber Walther PPK box stamped with a NSKK eagle. The correctly applied unit marking and the fact that other .22 cal PPK’s were used by the NSKK, encouraged me to believe that the auction gun may be correct. It was certainly worth the gamble of the asking price to obtain a rare unit marked NSKK PPK. The NSKK eagle and the unit mark were most likely added by the receiving NSKK unit.
Some background on Walther collecting at the time of the February 1974 Guns & Ammo article. Rankins' book 'Walther Models PP and PPK 1929-11945' was in the process of being published. The numerous PP and PPK variations were not all known. The authors of the 1974 Guns and Ammo article failed to recognize the NSKK eagle on the .22 cal PPK and mistakenly referred to it as a NSKD insignia. Only 13 NSKK PP's are listed in Rankins' 1974 book while over 50 are listed in Axis Pistols published just 12 years later. Todays detailed knowledge of Walther serial ranges, markings and issue to the various NSDAP units was just at its beginning.
It appears that (except for John James) the 1974 Guns & Ammo article and photograph were long forgotten, as the Gunbroker Auction NSKK Walther PPK did not sell. I later contacted the seller and he sold it to me for below the original asking price.
Later, in a conversation with, an old collecting friend and Walther expert, John Pearson, I happened to mentioned my new acquisition and the 1974 Guns & Ammo article. It turned out that John had purchased the engraved PP in the Guns and Ammo photograph. Guns & Ammo had given the original engraved PP owner (also, from the Los Angeles area) a framed enlarged color photograph from the article showing the three Walthers. John had also obtained the photograph. The 1974 Guns & Ammo photograph shows Nazi era headgear and daggers and three Walthers: one is an engraved PP, another is a late war PPK, and one is a .22 cal PPK, with an NSKK eagle on its right frame.
With John Pearson’s help it was determined that the brown mottled grips on my NSKK PPK were exactly the same as those on the NSKK PPK in the 1974 Guns & Ammo photograph and the serial numbers are the same. The PPK in the 1974 Guns & Ammo photograph and the one now residing in my collection were for certain one and the same.
With a lot of help from my collecting friends, I had stumbled onto the only reported NSKK Walther PPK, a real collectors prize. To top it all off, this PPK is shown in a photograph published 29 years ago.
Update January 18, 2003:
I posted a photograph of the NSKK PPK on this new site on Nov. 25, 2002 and on Dec. 9,2002 world known Walther collector Dieter H. Marshall replied:
“Hello Jan,
...the '11/M67' means '11. Sturm/Motorstandarte 67' (=Dortmund). Although I think this inscription is engraved, I must say that PPK # 862 654 shows an 'NSKK'-inscription, too.
Dieter
Hello Jan,
that NSKK-PPK is in .22, too.
Dieterâ€x9D
This additional information that another .22 cal PPK, sn 862654, is also NSKK inscribed adds greatly to the credibility of the .22 cal NSKK PPK, sn 862658, shown and discussed here in.
This kind of factual pistol information from world wide sources is what this Forum is all about. It made my day to find out that another .22 cal PPK is also NSKK marked. I am sure that fellow collectors will have similar luck on this Forum.
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Figure 5. NSKK PPK, serial number 862658, left side.
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Figure 6. NSKK PPK, serial number 862658, right side.
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Figure 7. NSKK PPK, serial number 862658, left side slide legend.
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Figure 8. NSKK PPK, serial number 862658, details of engraved NSKK eagle. The 11/ M67 signifies: 11 Sturm (company) of Motorstandarte 67 located in Dortmund in Westfallen. The inscription was accomplished by the local NSKK unit.
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Figure 9. NSKK, .22 caliber, Walther PPK, serial number 862658. Background is a February 1974 Guns & Ammo photograph showing a NSKK, .22 caliber, Walther PPK (center, bottom). Note: the grips on both guns show identical mottling and the serial numbers are the same. Both photographs (Oct. 2003 dated and February 1974 dated) show the exact same gun. The earlier photograph shows the original finish and the later photograph the restored finish.
The fact that another .22 cal NSKK PPK is only 4 serial number digits from the one shown, the fact that the one shown bears the NSKK engraving in an article published over 29 years ago, and that the 11/ M67 unit mark is properly applied to an existing NSKK unit, helpes establish this pistols credibility. The NSKK PPK is the rarest of the Walthers issued to NSDAP paramilitary units and is a collectors prize.
Credit John James for Guns & Ammo photograph and John Pearson for the Feb. 1974 Guns & Ammo Magazine. Many thanks to John James, John Pearson, Joe Wotka, and Dieter H. Marshall for helping establish the credibility of the NSKK Walther PPK.
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Shown again, NSKK Walther PP and PPK, and NSKK gorget. The NSKK PPK is now established as a (mostly) credible NSDAP pistol.
GOOD COLLECTING!
Jan C. Still